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arcthefinger.
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PostSubject: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:20 pm

This game really surprised me--I didn't think that things would end up the way they did. It was a really enjoyable game to play, if a bit frustrating at times. I think that things would have been very different if Abbadon and Omniknight would have been able to successfully gank Terrorblade once or twice in the early game. Trying to gank Vengeful is a bit more difficult as she as the ability to stun and run away, so I'm not positive that those ganks were an efficient use of time.

sent
loni/terrorblade
arcthefinger./vengeful
liverstones/tiny

scourge
nico12/omniknight
renovatio/abbadon
purger202/enigma

download here:
https://webdrive.service.emory.edu/users/kjetha/dsf-ih-fedtb.w3g
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:21 pm

that game made me sad...
ffs
delete it!!
DELETE ITTT!!!!!! PLZZZZZZZ Razz
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:05 pm

I was doing pretty good Razz

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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:11 am

That game was actually really frustrating for me as well...I thought there's no way we'd be able to win given your heros and your early game advantage.

That next game was even more frustrating for me. Laning against Nerubian sucks...and I'm not a great Magnus. I wasted my Reverse Polarity so many times. I'll post that one up in a bit.

I'd also like to point out that my swap of Omniknight into Roshan because of the wards I had placed was totally awesome.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:56 am

LOL Loni was TB? He always tries copying my TB, goddamnit guys he deserved to lose for that. I seriously need to copyright my TB before loni goes spreading it... V_V
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:01 am

OuTDateD wrote:
LOL Loni was TB? He always tries copying my TB, goddamnit guys he deserved to lose for that. I seriously need to copyright my TB before loni goes spreading it... V_V
Honestly, Liverstones and I were like, "picking Terrorblade was such a mistake." Fortunately, he was able to farm up SnY and get a few kills to get fed. And a fed TB is pretty scary.

I think that your build could use some improvement, too. Radiance is a great first item, but I wouldn't necessarily get it after SnY--I think The Butterfly would be better as a second item. The sparkles are great for harassing with images in the early game, but lose their effectiveness later in the game. Especially since they had two big STR heros (Abbadon and Omniknight) in this game.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:17 am

TB won the game for them

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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:39 am

Lol he got SnY first? I take no credit for that. My build is just 4 wraiths into boots into radi under 30 mins. Radi is not for dps, its for farming and image spamming. Im Dling replay right now to see what he did lol. TB is good in 3v3 though because less ganks and more time to farm. He is much harder to pull off in a 5v5 take my word for it as a TB main. TB is just imba when he farms lol check it out in the SuRg scrim posted on DCA.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:42 am

OuTDateD wrote:
Lol he got SnY first? I take no credit for that. My build is just 4 wraiths into boots into radi under 30 mins. Radi is not for dps, its for farming and image spamming. Im Dling replay right now to see what he did lol. TB is good in 3v3 though because less ganks and more time to farm. He is much harder to pull off in a 5v5 take my word for it as a TB main. TB is just imba when he farms lol check it out in the SuRg scrim posted on DCA.
Yep, you're right on the money with that. Image harass with radiance is super-annoying.

He chose SnY first, which is a fine build but better followed (IMO) by Bfly or Skadi (which only stacks with maim in ranged form). Ended up fine, though, since they let him farm up.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:40 pm

Finished watching replay and tbh... make loni the clan slave!!!! Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:24 pm

i think thats considered statuatory
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:36 pm

why no one go medusa? (on sent) since medusa is great against both abbadon and omni
and what are your builds on veng? I stack stats like wraiths/bracers and get BoT+Mek or like Bloodstone then either vlads or some different support item.....

Wow. my spelling and grammer sucks...
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:02 pm

riv_01d wrote:
why no one go medusa? (on sent) since medusa is great against both abbadon and omni
and what are your builds on veng? I stack stats like wraiths/bracers and get BoT+Mek or like Bloodstone then either vlads or some different support item.....
I decided on my VS build (two bracers, vanguard, strength treads) after playing a few games with Mark. I really like the quasi-tank/support build. I've actually never had mana problems since I go stats/stun/swap for most of the game. I choose aura/terror based on the game and, recently, I've been doing terror much more often than the aura. I might have to try mek, though...it might be a better "support" choice over Vanguard.

I'm thinking about what hero to play next since I'm playing Vengeful all the time now. I actually might try a few Gorgon builds. I was thinking Dazzle, but Gorgon would be a lot of fun too.

Thanks for your feedback Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:05 pm

aura is always good, much better than terror, because it dramatically increases your entire team and creeps damage

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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:28 pm

Renovatio. wrote:
aura is always good, much better than terror, because it dramatically increases your entire team and creeps damage

It begans to get really good after you lvl up stun and swap and alittle bit of terror too. Early game it dosent offer much help as stats are a much better choice. Never really considered vanguard on VS, I should try it... Get terror before aura if they have low armor dps heroes since they can quickly kill you (low hp). IMO getting bloodstone is more effective then stats... also it adds a nice heal to your team but you have to die...
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:39 pm

what are your builds on dusa?
i usually go stats/lightning then mana shield/split shot, you really only need one level of purge though
for items i go radiance if no one else is getting it since she can tank quite well or i go maelstrom/mjoll
RoB is a good starting item for her... evetually i get skadi/bfly although i almost always play her as a counter hero against people like sven, omni, broodmother etc.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:02 pm

riv_01d wrote:
what are your builds on dusa?
i usually go stats/lightning then mana shield/split shot, you really only need one level of purge though
for items i go radiance if no one else is getting it since she can tank quite well or i go maelstrom/mjoll
RoB is a good starting item for her... evetually i get skadi/bfly although i almost always play her as a counter hero against people like sven, omni, broodmother etc.
I typically do stats/lightning and an early pers and maybe a bracer or two. After that, I'm very adaptable, though I typically build Linkens by the end of the game for the regen (for mana shield). I would never use her as a Radiance carry and I'm actually thinking SnY for the Maim+Purge devastation. Skadi might be a better call. I honestly haven't thought about it.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:07 pm

riv_01d wrote:
Renovatio. wrote:
aura is always good, much better than terror, because it dramatically increases your entire team and creeps damage

It begans to get really good after you lvl up stun and swap and alittle bit of terror too. Early game it dosent offer much help as stats are a much better choice. Never really considered vanguard on VS, I should try it... Get terror before aura if they have low armor dps heroes since they can quickly kill you (low hp). IMO getting bloodstone is more effective then stats... also it adds a nice heal to your team but you have to die...
I agree. I think that the aura is kind of over-rated. In the mid-game (around level 16, for example), you'd get 15-20 extra damage that would be reduced by armor. I'd rather have the extra HP and MP from the stats, as well as the damage and attack speed for myself. Of course, by level 20-22, the aura becomes more relevant (and that's when I get it).

Terror, OTOH, is better early because it reduces armor and a percent of damage. So not only does it scale well into the endgame, but it's great for the midgame as well.

I don't think I'll be changing my skill build, but I might change up my item build a bit. Bloodstone is convincing, but really expensive. And since I usually buy the chicken and 4-5 sets of wards throughout the game, I'm not sure I could swing it. Especially since I don't get nearly as many kills as I do assists.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:39 am

You should get stats + stun until you have your bracers. Then get your aura so you can farm better. Terror is very situational, and often times, your stun is all your team needs. You are a ganking hero who can wander, you want stats for mana pool and hp. Terror only depletes your mana faster.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:46 am

OuTDateD wrote:
You should get stats + stun until you have your bracers. Then get your aura so you can farm better. Terror is very situational, and often times, your stun is all your team needs. You are a ganking hero who can wander, you want stats for mana pool and hp. Terror only depletes your mana faster.
I don't *not* get the aura, but I generally wait until the lategame to get it. Terror only costs like 20 mana and, by the time I actually get it, I have no mana problems because of all my stats/bracers.

The other problem with aura is that it hinders your ability to gank from the woods since the other heros can see the aura on the creeps/other heros and run away before the gank happens. But, like I said, it's situational. For example, I'm more likely to get aura earlier in a 5v5 game when there are more heros that will benefit from the aura (as opposed to 3v3 when the team battles are smaller). I'm pretty satisfied with my Vengeful build as it suits my playstyle (especially given that I like playing a supporting role in DotA).

I'm going to start playing dusa, though, so I need to think of a good build for her. Still thinking SnY for Maim and health, but I'm not positive. The dota-allstars.com forums are down, though, so I can't really see how other people are playing her.

edit: what if I got Sange (then SnY) instead of Vanguard on Vengeful....hmm...I might actually give that a shot.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:59 am

Venge isnt dps, shes support so you want her to swap and tank. once shes swapped and stunned, her job is done until she can stun again basically. She should be spending most of her money on wards.
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:19 am

If I am not mistaken, the damage aura only increases the damage, but it does not creates any type of physical aura (you know, like the aura around heroes) so it does not reveal anything. Enemies would have to click a creep to notice which no one ever does. About the vs tanking I would have to say that arc is an awesome tank with vs.

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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:20 am

With dusa I got skadi, mkb, butterfly, BoT

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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:38 pm

OuTDateD wrote:
Venge isnt dps, shes support so you want her to swap and tank. once shes swapped and stunned, her job is done until she can stun again basically. She should be spending most of her money on wards.

I agree terror helps with this toward mid game with the 20% damage reduction which begins to scale well against dps heroes so they can't kill you as quickly. Ofc you should get stats before terror though. after sumthing like bracers and mek i just buy wards.....

Renovatio. wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the damage aura only increases the damage, but it does not creates any type of physical aura (you know, like the aura around heroes) so it does not reveal anything. Enemies would have to click a creep to notice which no one ever does. About the vs tanking I would have to say that arc is an awesome tank with vs.

auras go away after a couple seconds (the appearance on the creeps like the blue circles by their feet) so you're right they would have to click on the creeps to see the +damage/icon
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PostSubject: Re: 4/28 - dsf 3v3 ih   Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:06 pm

OuTDateD wrote:
Venge isnt dps, shes support so you want her to swap and tank. once shes swapped and stunned, her job is done until she can stun again basically. She should be spending most of her money on wards.
Sange on Vengeful would be for tanking purposes--the STR actually gives more HP than Vanguard does but you trade the regen and damage reduction for a %maim. I'm pretty biased in favor of SnY, though--I think 10% maim is absolutely amazing.

reno wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the damage aura only increases the damage, but it does not creates any type of physical aura (you know, like the aura around heroes) so it does not reveal anything. Enemies would have to click a creep to notice which no one ever does. About the vs tanking I would have to say that arc is an awesome tank with vs.
riv wrote:
auras go away after a couple seconds (the appearance on the creeps like the blue circles by their feet) so you're right they would have to click on the creeps to see the +damage/icon
I'm pretty sure the blue circles show up for a few seconds, which can give away your position in a gank situation. That's what I meant, at least. It's not a huge deal since the radius of the aura isn't huge, but it's another reason to hold off on the aura until 18-20 for me.

reno wrote:
With dusa I got skadi, mkb, butterfly, BoT
I'm going to try a boots>Pers>SnY>Linken's build, I think. The DPS isn't huge, but I'd get maim+purge as slows and I'd try to play a quasi-support role, ganking and buying wards. I haven't tried this yet, though, so the idea might crash and burn.
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